and had a great conversation about all things Expendables. He also showed me his newest acquisition – a 1932 Deuce Coupe (See photo below). Sweeeeet! I asked about the teaser that will prevue in Venice – it’s approximately 3 minutes long and according to Sly “kicks ass”. I am dying to see it – hopefully I will get the chance before he leaves for the Festival. He still hasn’t given me permission to post it after it’s shown in Venice but I will keep trying. We also talked about the scene with Bruce, Arnold & Sly. One thing for certain – they will shoot it before the end of September. Sly is still kicking around some really cool ideas – I mean seriously people…having the three of them together in one frame is pretty freakin exciting… and there are high expectations. So he is hashing it out and I’m sure will come up with a scene worthy of the actors. We also talked about the hours and hours of behind the scenes footage director John Hertzfeld shot for a documentary on the making of The Expendables. This was a difficult shoot – Sly and I agree this was the most difficult movie we have ever worked on. From casting changes to logistical nightmares to injuries there was a lot going on. And John (along with several other shooters) captured it all on film…the good the bad and the very very ugly. I think it would be a great 5 parter on HBO or Showtime in addition to putting exclusive stuff on the DVD. We talked about the value of releasing some of it before the film comes out – I think that is a mistake. Once you see the film and then see it from a behind the scenes perspective I think it will have more impact. At any rate there’s a lot of good stuff and we my friends will benefit. Works for me.
Ciao for now…
Ethelmae's Blog 
August 23, 2009 at 12:54 am |
Sweet ride and a documentary would be even sweeter! Thanks for the updates and have a terrific weekend!
August 23, 2009 at 1:15 am |
PLEASE! MAKE IT AN R! You have to let Sly know that making this a PG-13 will = instant fail. Kids don’t want to see old timers involved in REAL action. Stop being greedy with money and make the best product for those that will really appreciate it. We don’t want another yippe-ki yay mother*BEEP*
MAKE EXPENDABLES R!!!!
August 23, 2009 at 1:37 am |
I am so excited about this movie! And the car is sweeeeetttttttttt. Sly is The Man!!
August 23, 2009 at 2:44 am |
Really loved watching Sly check out the bikes in New Orleans. I had never been that close to a real movie star.. and I was pleased that he met Chris Callen, editor of Cycle Source magazine and the Limpnickie Lot (next generation) builders. Can you believe those guys rode 12 hours from Arizona, and then went out riding to The Kamp bike night to bring riders back to a party? Sly has one of their bikes now.
August 23, 2009 at 2:46 am |
are they planning to put the Teaser in front of any films(perhaps gamer?) or is it soley for Venice film festival??
cant wait to see arnold/bruce/sly on screen together!! I trust sly can come up with something great…they filming for just one day or a couple?
August 23, 2009 at 2:59 am |
solely for Venice right now – and they are only filming for one day – that’s what’s been budgeted.
August 23, 2009 at 3:55 am
thanks for the reply! im sure they can film quite abit even with one day though…
I hope sly eventually caves in and lets you post the Teaser!! 😉
August 23, 2009 at 11:22 am |
Awesome stuff 🙂
What about the Rambo “Director’s Cut” that’s being shown at the Venice festival? Any details on that?
August 23, 2009 at 1:28 pm |
One day of filming is great. Can’t wait to see the stills.
August 23, 2009 at 1:31 pm |
Hope the upcoming trailer doesn’t leak if its not supposed to, thought the 3 min trailer of RAMBO at Cannes contained too many of the ‘money shots’ from the final film and wouldn’t want the element of surprise taken away from this project also.
The cars rocks, some good pics of Sly sat happily in it over at gettyimages.
August 23, 2009 at 4:22 pm |
I saw Sly in New Orleans during bike week, the first movie star I have been elbow to elbow with and he was very nice. I was glad to see that he met Chris Callen, the editor of Cycle Source motorcycle magazine, and he made some Limpnickie Lot (next generation) builders verrry happy.
August 23, 2009 at 4:44 pm |
Glad to hear the making of will be a real documentary and not just a “cleaned up” promo featurette!
August 23, 2009 at 4:45 pm |
“having the three of them together in one frame is pretty freakin exciting” – so very very true. I also agree that, even though I desperately want to see as much of the film as I can Now, that the behind the scenes should come out after the movie. Let the movie make its impact and then let the people, like me, who want to know about the magic behind it see the behind the scenes.
August 23, 2009 at 6:21 pm |
Make the rating R. A PG13 will effectively kill all buzz for this movie. Really want this to do well.
August 24, 2009 at 12:07 am |
PG-13 or Rated R, either one will do it for me. I don’t care what rating a movie is as long as it’s a great action film and full of fun. Movie ratings aren’t that important. I know people want “The Expendables” to be R rated but think about it…all these tough guy action stars: Sly, Arnold, Bruce, Dolph, Jason, Jet, Stone Cold, etc. are all movie heros that young kids look after. How are high school kids or younger will go in to see the movie with it being R? If it’s R rated, that will make less people see the movie like it did with the last “Rambo” movie.
I honestly think it’s a good idea it should be PG-13. Let more kids see it and Sly should get a younger fanbase.
The WWE fans and UFC fans which are mostly the younger generation would want to see their heros in this movie.
Let it be PG-13 if Sly wants it to be. I think he clearly wants this movie to be for the younger kids.
Kev
August 24, 2009 at 8:10 am |
Kev Brock has a point!
August 24, 2009 at 10:39 am |
im a massive sly stallone fan and i no this film will rock and i hope all the nasty critics will finnaly give the respect to him that he deserves as i feel that as an actor and film maker he has been the biggest now for nearly 30 years and is very underratted he has constently made hits for 3 decades (a couple of flops on the way but he is only human beloive it or not ) i like to say that i think ur doing a great job keep up the good work and all of that, wondering how long the film will be hopeing it will be the 2hours we want not 1h 1/2 thanks alot stallone rocks does that rhyme anyway SEMPA FIGHT all the way byeeeeeee
August 24, 2009 at 12:59 pm |
Pg 13 would be a mistake, here, in Europe we dont have this problem. If you want Pg 13 then they do another assembly for USA, but please, dont mutilate the movie for the rest of fans, allow to sly to create freely, because Im totally sure that rated R is his wish.
August 24, 2009 at 2:08 pm |
YAAAAAH!! I’m a DVD Extras nerd.
August 24, 2009 at 2:36 pm |
Explain how a PG-13 rating would be a mistake? “Expendables” being PG-13 would make the film more successful ’cause more people would see it. More kids and their family members would be able to see it. It would almost be like a family action film. Kids would want to see the Arnie, Bruce and Sly scene but they can’t with it being R rated. I don’t understand why certain Stallone fans are desperate for this film to be R rated. This film is going to be a badass action flick, no matter what the rating and Sly will not dissapoint either way. So I think once again, you’re just complaining.
Kev
August 24, 2009 at 2:57 pm |
Expendables is an action movie, not a kids movie, or perhaps is Disney the producer?…and Im not going to enter in polemic with you Kev, I dont want create another polemic as arnolds cameo, that already I know you…
August 24, 2009 at 3:36 pm |
Yes, it’s an action movie, but there has been plenty of very successful PG-13 action flicks in the past. Movies like “Die Hard 4” and the new “Fast and Furious” went from R to PG-13 and both were huge hits. That is probably what inspired Sly to make this possibly PG-13 so younger kids can see tough guy action stars. Nothing wrong with these action movie stars growing a younger fan base is there? That’s what this is all about. Not all action movies have to be R rated. Most of Jason Statham’s movies were PG-13, the same goes for Jet Li.
Kev
August 25, 2009 at 2:19 am
Kev, let’s get REAL. Making money does not mean something was good or successful. Like it or not, Rambo 4 was very successful with making only an inch of what Die Hard 4 made. I think there is a Rambo 5 coming but I hear nothing of a Die Hard 5.
You have to remember. What are Sly’s greatest action flicks? The Rambos, Cobra, Get Carter. These are all bloody and violent. 18, R rated. R means that we can hear the swearing and see the blood. Imagine Rambo 2 as Pg13? It would be terrible.
Sorry, but Sly knows and we know it that PG13 will kill the movie. Don’t disappoint the fans, Sly. Make it an R
August 24, 2009 at 5:19 pm |
The latest rambo movie was amazing because it was R, if this movie was R it would be epic.. if its PG 13 it could still be cool but it wouldnt be as amazing as it could if it was R. I cannot wait either way, im just hoping they take advantage of these actors and make it ultra violent
August 24, 2009 at 6:32 pm |
Sylvester(Sly) Stallone: You’re THE GREATEST!!!!!…
August 25, 2009 at 2:19 am |
Making my voice heard again for the R rating. Sheryl, please tell Sly that the fans want that R rating. Make it a true action film, not just some money grabbing franchise. Big mistake.
August 25, 2009 at 2:28 am |
YES, I COMPLETELY AGREE. Make it a R rated movie, so I all the woosies out there don’t come and watch it. R is the way to go for a movie like this.
August 25, 2009 at 11:50 am |
Hope an Farid have all the reason, well said!
August 25, 2009 at 2:42 pm |
The problem is guys, we DONT KNOW what kind of movie stallone filmed or wanted….all we know is a few online pictures and the cast.
if sly wants the film to be PG-13 and thats his vision, LET IT BE, if his vision is R, LET IT BE. sly is the film-maker here not us.
A rating really has nothing to do with the quality of a film, thats up to the director…If James Cameron made a PG-13 terminator, id sure as he’ll bet it would be great and better than McG’s Turd
we’ll see….id prefer an R, but I dont mind a PG-13 either if that is what it ends up being…because honestly I dont know what slys vision is for this..
August 25, 2009 at 11:04 pm |
I agree wth Mike 100%. I’m glad this guy is with me on this. No one has the right to tell Sly what rating he wants his movies to be, ’cause all of this is his decision. Like I said for like the third time, Sly is not going to dissapoint us either way. If you were a true Sly fan, you would just let the man do what he wanted, but telling him how to make films is not a cool thing.
Sly just finished filming of the movie, and sorry to say guys, after seeing all the photos of the film, it definitely looks like he is heading to a “PG-13” direction.
If it’s R rated, not many people is going to see it and it won’t be as successful in the box office. You want this movie to be successful do you? Well, the film being R rated isn’t going to do it.
I want to see “The Expendables” be a box office hit and making it PG-13 would be a smart way to do it. It would be sad to see the film not do well in the box office ’cause of the R rating.
Quit telling Sly what to do.
Kev
August 25, 2009 at 3:29 pm |
[…] unit publicist for ‘The Expendables’ has entered another post about the film. Sheryl Main says that she met up with Sylvester Stallone and that the movie clip he plans to […]
August 26, 2009 at 1:40 am |
300 was rated R and was very successful with a sequel in the works. So an R-rated film does not mean definite failure.
That aside, it’s success does not hinge on loads of kids going to go and watch it and it making loads of money. Expendables aint Bayformers. Blade Runner was a box office bomb, but I think we can say that was a successful effort that will be remember for all time. Bayformers on the other hand will be forgotten, along with Twilight and so on.
So please Sly, make this thing an R and please the fans who REALLY care. Not the kids who are too busy with their xboxes
August 26, 2009 at 1:56 am |
Actually, Hope, getting kids out of their homes away from their Xboxes to see “The Expendables” would be a good thing, and that is one thing that Sly would love is more kids seeing the film, as you all know, Sly has three daughters of his own, including Sage Stallone. In case you haven’t noticed, Sly’s fanbase is mostly kids these days.
The film’s rating is not really up to Sly, it’s basically all up to the MPAA (Motion Pictures Association of America), so whatever decision the MPAA decide to rate it…that’s how Hollywood works. It all depends on what Sly put in the film, depending on how violent the film is, whether the film has swearing throughout most of it, sexual content, etc. You get the deal.
I can understand why you fans want The Expendables to R rated since Sly has done mostly R rated action throughout his entire career, but it don’t hurt to do something different for a change. Sly is a role model to kids, something to think about.
For those who have children here, wouldn’t it be cool if you would take your kids to see a Sly movie and your children could enjoy Stone Cold beating up Sly on screen?
Stone Cold is a WWE star and he too has a huge following of kids as fans.
You should be happy that Sly has another movie coming out soon, but nope, fans will always have something to complain to him about no matter what film he does.
Kev
August 26, 2009 at 1:28 pm |
So if the 110+ degree warehouse in NOLA and that bathroom that looked like the set of the first Saw movie weren’t the most trying parts of the shoot, what was? 😉
August 26, 2009 at 4:28 pm |
Hi! I worked in the movie here in Rio de Janeiro, I’m the Brazilian Graphic Producer.
I need to ask you something… do you believe that I have not receive my last week yet? Me and a lot of people. More than 50! O2 says that the problem is the american producers!
If you can make some pression over any responsible department… I’ll thank you a lot!
August 26, 2009 at 10:55 pm |
Avi lerner said few days ago, that there are two assemblies of the film, one pg 13 and another rated R, and they will proof, in private sessions with public, which has more success…so, SLY MADE RATED R, its clear, pg 13 is idea of the producer…
August 26, 2009 at 11:11 pm |
And one thing more, Sylvester Stallone is my idol since I was a child. I enjoyed with rambo, cobra and another films rated R, and I liked it, and to other kids, VERY VERY MUCH. with these films Sly made us VERY VERY happy in that decade, I will never forget this.
August 27, 2009 at 12:20 am |
I’m pretty sure that if “The Expendables” turns out to be PG-13, and you go see it, you all are going to love it, and walk out of the theaters with a smile on your face. Just because it’s possible it won’t have the R rating, does not mean the movie is going to be crap.
I’m sure the movie will be very violent and have lots of blood, there maybe a little bit of swearing (not a lot but very little) and there maybe soft core half nudity with the women in the film, that’s good enough to make it PG-13. If it was to be R rated, the material would have to be worse than that, and I don’t think Sly has gotten any worse than that.
Don’t always assume that Sly definitely made this R rated ’cause things can always change. What is it with the R rated obsession?
Sheryl made this cool post about her meeting with Sly and showing off his new car, and you guys ruined it by complaining about the rating of the film? What gives?
Movie ratings doesn’t make a difference to me. I just want to see a good film, no matter the rating.
Kev
August 27, 2009 at 1:29 am |
And I just wanted to say that there are some very opinionated people that post comments in this blog. They aren’t being factual but being very opinionated with the rating of Sly’s film or other stuff. I find it kind of rude and annoying that certain fans won’t give up the, “Please Sly, make it R rated” and they probably won’t give up no matter what anybody says to help defend it. Just proof that people don’t know anything about film makers and hollywood. I’m just telling things how things are in Hollywood.
Sly is the film maker here, not you. Let him make the decisions and create the stories how he pleases.
Kev
August 27, 2009 at 12:15 pm |
Kev, the only one who create polemic is YOU… For my part I will not do any more commentaries about this.
August 27, 2009 at 12:20 pm |
I feel it is within our right as fans who pay to watch this stuff to voice our opinions. A PG-13 film can’t have blood in it or gratuitous violence. It can’t. And strictly NO SWEARING.
Avi Lerner is just a money hungry loser who wants to ruin the aspects that make an action movie a PROPER action movie. Not Jumper. Sly has made R-rated action all his life. Why should he have to change now? On what is the biggest action film of all time.
HH
August 27, 2009 at 1:15 pm |
As I figured above, you’re not going to give up this “make this R rated” thing. I’m not the one that is polemic, not at all, just for disagreeing with you on this “R rated” topic? Please.
The comments in this post were coming out really good, until Hope posted this…”Make the rating R. A PG13 will effectively kill all buzz for this movie. Really want this to do well.”
That sounds pretty polemic to me. That comment totally went off topic in this post. What does that post have to do with Sly’s meeting and Sly’s new car? NOTHING!
That comment Hope made sounded negative, you told Sly to make this “R rated”, instead of asking. Then you said PG-13 will kill the buzz for this movie which is not going to happen at all, you can’t assume things. PG-13 rating could help make the movie very successful as well. You’re just very opinionated and so demanding. So I had no choice but to reply and point you out that what you say is wrong.
You have the right to an opinion yes, but Potro and Hope say things without backing up with any facts. You kept being demanding of this movie being R rated. Sly will make his films how he wants.
I’m not alone on this ’cause there’s a few other readers above that totally agreed with me and I’m sure there’s many more.
Kev
August 27, 2009 at 6:41 pm |
On a side note, lets drop this “R rated” thing completely and go back to talking about this cool thread! I for one am looking forward to the “Expendables” teaser, bring it on, Sly!
Kev
August 28, 2009 at 1:56 am |
hey sheryl THANK YOU 4 THE UPDATE!!!
I SAW A PIC OF YOU INTERVIEWING JET LI, HE POSTED IT UP ON FACEBOOK.
ANYWAY CAN U TELL US WHAT DAY EXACTLY WILL THE TRAILER PREMIER IN THE FESTIVAL OR ON THE NET??
THANKS AGAIN MY FRIEND!!
August 28, 2009 at 6:34 pm |
Here’s a video of Sly driving that cool old timer car posted above! Awesome!
Kev
August 28, 2009 at 10:27 pm |
I Absoltuely cannot wait for the arnold/bruce/sly scene!
Side note: Its gotta be R.
August 28, 2009 at 11:00 pm |
Nice! oh Sly has shaved already xD
August 29, 2009 at 12:04 pm |
I wonder why sly shaved if they are filming the scene(s) in september??
we’ll I dont think it should take that long for sly to grow it back
August 29, 2009 at 1:47 pm |
So how many MMA fighters actually filmed scenes for the movie? We know Couture and the Nogueria brothers are in it. Did Sly get Machida? There were pictures of Anderson Silva and Vitor Belfort on set…did either of them film at all? Thanks in advance. Love the blog!
August 31, 2009 at 1:53 pm |
In case you Stallone fans haven’t heard yet, “Rambo 5” has been greenlighted.
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118007920.html?categoryid=1238&cs=1
WOOT! 🙂 The more Stallone, the better!
Kev
August 31, 2009 at 3:10 pm |
GREAT GREAT GREAT!! 😀
September 2, 2009 at 3:19 am |
AUGUST 2010?! man, a WHOLE year!!!!
September 2, 2009 at 5:16 am |
yep…a whole year. Damn!
September 2, 2009 at 2:26 pm
I actually think moving it to August is a good idea. I want this to be a summer blockbuster, we want this movie to do well for Sly and it will be the biggest movie of the summer that year. I’m sure of it.
Kev
September 2, 2009 at 5:37 am |
so the traiLer should be released sooner!!
September 2, 2009 at 3:17 pm |
Again: the film will not be biggest movie of any summer in any year.
Pushing it to August makes sense, but I am not going to wait that long. I’m pretty sure I have forgotten this flick ever existed by the time of the premiere regardless the promotion that hits before it.
But it was a fun ride while it lasted. Take care everyone.
September 2, 2009 at 8:07 pm |
Trust me, I think the film will be a huge hit. The important Arnold, Sly and Bruce scene is a good enough reason to get people out to the theaters. I think the Expendables will be just as big as “Inglourious Basterds”, maybe even bigger. Never assume the the movie will tank and not do well, we should all be hopeful for this.
Kev
September 2, 2009 at 10:00 pm |
Inglorious Bastards???dont compare please… Expendables will be the greatest, and Rambo V will be more gratest still xD
September 5, 2009 at 2:53 pm |
OK…if I can wait for April 2010..I can wait for August 2010..but why?? Can you at least tell us why? More time to add scenes? Arnold & Bruce’s schedule? Maybe adding a few more cameos?? That..I can understand, but no matter, I WILL SEE IT more than once!!
Congrats to Sly for the award he will recieve @Venice!! Hope to see that 3 min teaser!!
Thanks Sheryl!!
September 5, 2009 at 7:35 pm |
WOOOW!!Rambo V is Rambo against supersoldiers!it would be great that this movie was similar that Metal Gear Solid 1, all know that Hideo Kojima copied another Rambos movies previously he he. Rambo and The Expendables are the most!! 😉
September 6, 2009 at 2:10 pm |
An alteration, Rambo V will be Rambo against ONE supersoldier, a face to face in the same stage of First Blood…umm personally I liked more another idea, but sure it will be very very great any way. I cant wait to see this Rambo and Expendables! VIVA SYLVESTER STALLONE!! 😉
September 6, 2009 at 3:16 pm |
Hi Sheryl,
Hope you are on board for Rambo V.
This idea about a super soldier is just great
This is genious !
SCI-FI?
NO WAY
look at the extremists blowing up people, they have one aim and one aim only, to kill, this is Sly twist on the human condition, what can happen still if people follow brain washing schemes
Plus i smell a bit from the book “HUNTER” in this.
Its obvious that if Sly did HUNTER then it would be a rambo-type film, and now we have it
Can you imagine bringing a child up in a military setting, shown no love, no emotion, nothing, and training it to be savage killer, teaching it pain through torture you gave to it, making it want to unleash anger on anything that resembled its captor?
How you would train such a wild beast i dont know but i guess if you mimic training moves and techniques in front of it, surely it has the intelligence to mimic back and copy
BUT
why kill it?
Its not its fault, its mans fault, so how would you find the words to communicate?
This could actually be a very important film, how to communicate with wild non thinking, set in thier ways people !!
September 7, 2009 at 5:04 pm |
Honestly, THE HELL with the Lions Gate for being so god damn selfish and pushing this movie til August. If they’re so f***n worried about the movie doing good, why did they even make the Expendables in the first place. If a movie is really good and you are confident in it, then it wouldn’t matter when it comes out, it will still do great, no matter what.
I hope that The Expendables is worth the wait…really I mean that, because I’m a huge Stallone fan, and if they’re making us wait a year for it to come out, then it better be good, cause if it’s not, I won’t even go to watch Rambo V because I wouldn’t wanna get disappointed.
Let’s hope that the Expendables is really good and worth the wait. I’m really pissed off.
I LOVE YOU SLY.
September 7, 2009 at 7:40 pm |
Boh, what is the problem?? you like create polemic eh guys?… the release in theaters is in August? well, ok, we will wait a little more, nothing happens.
September 7, 2009 at 7:48 pm |
And another thing, I will go to the cinema to see a Stallones movie
although its the biggest shit of the world, but this will not happen, Rocky Balboa and Rambo were very good movies. Stallone will not dissapoint us.
September 7, 2009 at 7:50 pm |
Let’s hope man.
September 8, 2009 at 12:37 pm |
Certainly, has someone read the news of Rambo’s 5 supposed official synopsis? Rambo against a savage beast half human half animal?? accompanied of a 22 year-old young man??? I cannot believe it… 😦 and when there will be film the scenes with bruce and arnold?
September 10, 2009 at 9:53 pm |
Nobody reads this blog already?? where is all the people? where is Sheryl?… 😛
September 12, 2009 at 12:48 am |
I’m sure everyone’s reading and all the Sly fans. I’m a 100% positive we’re all waiting for Expendables footage at the Venice festival and information about Sly getting his award there. When Sheryl writes all about that here, then we’ll start talking.
Kev
September 11, 2009 at 2:49 am |
we need another update whether this footage will still be released after the release date has now moved to august next year from april
September 12, 2009 at 3:35 pm |
I wish Steve Austin wasn’t in The Expendables, it just lowers the movie’s class. Seriously, where did he come from all of the sudden, he should have just stuck to wrestling. Everytime I see him, he reminds me of those red neck americans, I’m not saying that he is, but he just reminds me. I hope he doesn’t have too many scenes in the movie.
September 12, 2009 at 5:40 pm |
In case you haven’t been following WWE, Steve Austin retired from wrestling years ago. He has a bad neck which is why he isn’t able to wrestle anymore. He just performs on WWE occasionally. This is why he turned to acting in movies, because there are plenty of interviews where Steve said he wanted to become a movie star as well.
Sly is obviously a huge fan of wrestling as Sly was the one who inducted Hulk Hogan into the WWE Hall of Fame. Sly also had Terry Funk in, “Over the Top”. His directing debut, “Paradise Alley” was also about wrestling.
Sly must be a huge fan of Steve as well, because if he wasn’t, Sly wouldn’t have asked him. Steve Austin, a red neck American? LOL, that’s exactly what Steve Austin is, a Texas rattle snake, beer drinking redneck, he’s call himself that in WWE all the time.
And that’s the bottom line, ’cause Stone Cold says so.
Kev
September 12, 2009 at 3:38 pm |
when is the teaser going to be released?!!?!?
September 12, 2009 at 3:38 pm |
WHEN IS THE TEASER GOING TO BE RELEASED?!?!?!?
September 12, 2009 at 8:39 pm |
Today, Sly confirmed in Venice that the scenes with arnold and bruce will be shot in two weeks, approximately, in L.A. 😀 and Rambo 5 will be Rambo against a fierce primitive human/s result of secrets military experiments. I trust in Sly blindly, but I think that combine this with another plot more like Metal Gear Solid 1 of PSX would be great, a film with action and infiltration, Rambo like Solid Snake. dont you think?